AMEN Bernie!

I believe the dunes should be built, and will , regardless of the oceanfront homeowners desires. But, the bad news for you is they do not protect the mainland side of the bay. Now putting dunes ON THE MAINLAND SIDE OF THE BAY will protect the storm surge from the bay and surrounding estuaries.

To daniel nee,I feel if it was spelled out to the beach front homeowners what exactly they will end up with they would probably agree.When they say a 22 ft high dune does that mean 22 ft above the waterline? Were does the 22 ft high end up?Clarity would help a ton.......thanks

Jack Cee:

Please go to TR website and download the pdf file -45 pages answering all your questions. There is an engineering drawing of the dune the Army will build.

Dune will be little higher, but MASSIVELY wider. The beach will be similarly wider and much ently sloping. Figure you are basically gaining about 200 feet down to the average tide line vs. last summer's beach. Frankly, if I were you I'd be MORE than willing to trade away an maintnance corridor easement to have such an awesome beach in my backyard (at taxpayer's expense no less)

Honestly dude, really? You own beach front land and you aren't even researching this? Trust me, all of us living behind you are!

And no, this is not just dune maintenance with a backhoe (which I think we all agree TR was remiss at). This is a massive civil engineering project that will truly improve our island. You can't do this alone my friend.

We are sacrificing with you....want to see my architect's drawings for a first floor 10 feet off the ground? Or the bill for the pilings foundation?

I don't like all the negativity here on the board, but please do us a favor and get the facts. Don't wait for TR to spoon feed this to you.

Cherry Quay - why on earth would you assume your higher flood insurance premiums are more important than their property values (ie view).

I think the dunes should be built but I see that sort of attitude all the time here and it is profoundly UNHELPFUL. Basically you argue against their selfishness and seem completely oblivious to your own. It's not persuasive and frankly if I were an ocean front property owner it would make me want to dig in my heals and not capitulate to your selfish demands.

Sounds loud and clear to me.

if they dont sign they will be subject to eminent domain as well as class action suits. Its very black and white

We survived with no help at all.Our dune took the hit and was ready for more.We have always fixed our dune all by ourselves.

So true Keith

Nope. Brick is the contiguous township to Mantoloking on the Barrier Island.

What's next...you proposing Brick lifeguards refuse to help someone drowning on the Mantoloking side ? Refusing to help someone at risk, isn't the way to do this.

So in the statement Toms River made in the article, "Toms River officials again stressed this week during a council meeting that they want the easements signed, and had such a dune been in place during Sandy the damage would have been far less severe." Is this a public admission that their failure to maintain the dunes in Ortley near Harding Avenue exacerbated the damage to Ortley? Or am I not reading it correctly?

Yes, except when a. the storm turned counter clockwise and b. the rivers and back bays became engorged with water, the bay sides on the island as well as the mainland were flooded.

Yep, Mike...it's called an admission.

Angel, while the storm did take that pattern; not sure you realize that it is FEMA that forced the TR admission. FEMA concluded based on gathering evidence, including how dunes were previously built and reinforced, photos of them immediately before, breaches, weather conditions (consulting with NOAA experts, etc. regarding the changing of the pattern of the storm), review of the damages, etc.) that: "very little IF ANY damage to the barrier island and mainland areas had the dune and beach replenishment taken place prior to the storm." Pretty damning stuff.

Toms River Township there Benny

Somebody doesn't live in Mantaloking....

You'd have a different attitude if someone slapped your ass with a law suit.

Ok Larry give us your address we will be happy to stop by and bless your lovely beach you believe you Own All 14.000 homeowners effected by people like you .
Your welcome to use my Bathroom anytime when they take yours away from you .

In Berkeley Township, we are being forced to raise our houses if we are in V zones. Our house came through the storm dry as did several of our neighbors' who were and are on 10' pilings. Not good enough for Fema so we are being told we MUST raise this house that was built to NC outer banks building codes just because Fema says so. That is crazy.

There should have been dunes on those barrier islands from the get go but NJ in general has had the sloppiest building codes and now is about to go to the other extreme. So for starters those dunes must be built and if their houses are taken they should buy something closer to the center and in many cases they would still be able to see the water. I do feel badly for those folks but they have to understand they are just part of a much larger community and the general welfare just has to come first. They ought to visit the main land areas that were devastated to put their situations in perspective.

A 25ft dune will not keep out a 100 foot Tsunami. Should people hope that the Tsunami makes it all the way to your house?

A 100 foot tsunami will wipe out not only the oceanfront homes but pretty much all of Toms River too.

Where do you live Walking Dead? Brick or TOMS RIVER maybe? Maybe you should reconsider your "hope for a 100 foot Tsunami". AND I won't try to shame a selfish person like... a Walking Dead person for being a....... I'll let you realize for yourself what you are.

Missing Brick, NO, not everyone is signing.........selfish, selfish people.
My family and home are more important to me than their precious oceanfront view. I don't give a crap about their view........ HOW DARE THEY NOT SIGN ! ! ! !

I agree that anyone who does not sign is sue asking for it...but I have a feeling it won't be a problem in the long run.

In the long run, I'm more scared of FEMA requiring me to invest $135k in raising my house when in fact, even Sandy would not have touched these ridiculous elevations...never mind the V zone non-sense.

Instead of neighbor-fighting neighbor, I'd like to see us all fight FEMA.

Yes, I agree, anyone worried about their view is selfish...but I doubt that will play in eminent domain court, so I'm not worried about it. I'm worried about the value of my repairs, taxes and elevation going far past the value of my home. Sorry rich folks, we deserve to live too.

Error-riddled flood zone maps, extravagant home-raising heights, exorbitant annual insurance premiums... to bail out FEMA from its Katrina debt on the backs of NJ property owners.

The 2012 Biggert-Waters Act gave FEMA the power to destroy the coasts, the Ohio and Mississippi Valleys, etc. (20% of all Americans). Congress must amend it. Get the facts at Facebook.com/StopFemaNow

Building properly engineered dunes and seawalls without gaps will LOWER the base flood elevations on the "crazy maps". The modeling used to develop the advised maps IS incomplete. More dunes = less elevations.

The map situation is out of control. Most of us know that those dunes are coming and yet when I wrote to Fema to ask them to consider the protection folks on the western side of the Bay would be getting, I got a form letter in return.

Obviously once those dunes are in place people will find lawyers to help get the new dunes incorporated into updated maps that most likely would remove the V zone for many people on the mainland. It is going to take several years for us to get fair treatment from OUR government.

Brick seems to be one of the exceptions where the local politicians are on the side of their constituents. They are blessed from where I sit.

Those ocean front houses will have to be on 14' pilings. If they reverse the flloors of their actual houses and put the living rooms on the top floor, they will have magnificent views. For one story houses, it may be time to think roof deck!

Why don't we just build the dune and block them in forever?

http://www.app.com/viewgal/?Site=B3&Date=20130305&Category=MULTIMEDIA02&ArtNo=303050093&Ref=PH&Item=0

No, and the house survived Sandy. Room with a view and 375 K--not bad.

While I would just love to see a class action suit filed (seeking relief in the form of my flood insurance being paid), It would quite simply take too long. Build the dunes--NOW!

The public access should be in the form of a boardwalk that crosses the pile of sand and vegetation covering your former residence.

BUILD THE DUNES!

Kevin, that's interesting because we're not hearing about towns like Manasquan, Pt Pleasant, Spring Lake etc which incurred great damages in homes near the ocean as well.....Parts of Manasquan near the ocean look like war zones.

Your house flooded because you decided to live near an ocean. I live in Manchester, we didn't flood. Don't blame others for your decisions.

@cm, I live closer to you than I do to the ocean. This is not just about Ocean Front owners being affected. Try looking at the bigger picture.

They can eminent the easements I think its Well over due to print the names of the hold outs

Local town Mayors are being given financial incentives if they go along with Fema's plans. They are told that the non V zone residents will pay less for insurance if these draconian new building codes are adhered to. And no doubt between the Blue Ocean bond issue funds from NJ and federal government grants, money will be used to pay us out but not using Governor Cuomo's method. And I'm sure that the taxes lost will be offset for a decade or so to help these floundering town civil servants to get back on their feet. We the middle class do not count.

The "fair market value" is about to happen. Sign before more damage is done. The dunes ARE going in!

You didn't sign for 25 years, and now you're wising up under the threat of eminent domain. Too late to save 10,000 homes behind you and on the mainland along the bay. You're no hero.

Hey Martin, what have you done to protect the barrier island homeowner? It works both ways, that's the issue. Everyone calling for eminent domain and class actions, please. It was a natural disaster, declared as such and therefore absolves man. Private property rights are what's at stake for the "holdouts". If you own property, regardless of where it might be, you have a vested interest in how and when eminent domain and or easements are implemented. Some areas that had dunes got crushed, others didn't. Even with the dunes, Mantoloking will still be the narrowest point on the island. Of all the ocean front homes, the vast majority of owners are proponents of and most knowledgeable about dunes. Why because they have been caring for them and building them on their own, out of pocket and they provide the first line of defense to their property. Just like anyone else who cares about their property, you do what you can. However, I don't expect my neighbor to protect my property or me his, let alone am I obligated to do it. My obligation is to stay within the bounds of the rules that the town sets forth for every property within the town. Did any oceanfront owner violate town codes or rules, if not, how are they at fault. This was a massive and catastrophic storm. No ones property is more important than anyone else's. We are all dealing with the consequences.

Mr Ships - this is not just about dunes. It's the width and slope profile of the beach system (which is fed by the dunes), over a long continous stretch of coast. A consistent beach maintainance strategy from inlet to inlet would have prevented all of breaches.

You and the others need to sign and give up some rights because you own the un-ownable. Your land is not land like that which rest of us own. You are granting something that you can't really have anyway. Only massive coordinated civil engineering project can defy nature. And that won't happen if the beach is owned by a patchwork of entitities each trying to figure out what's best.

Remember you stand to benefit enormously by signing that easement. I wouldn't want to touch your property even at 1/2 of pre Sandy value with the current situation. Put a nice big US Army Corp maintained beach in front your house...well, now that's what I'm talkin' about!

Just sign already. The fewer hold outs (and there will be some) the faster we can implement ED or legal action to close the loop and get the sand moving. Note the ED's will not be pay-outs...they've already put the language out there that any takings will cause benefits to accrue to the remaining untaken part of your land that exceed the value of the land (which is plummetting due to the non-action).

BB writes they need to be educated as to what "it's all about." Where have you been? This has been going on for how long ?
Your living in a bubble bb............Wake up !

Well said! Mr. Ships27. I'm sure these people are willing to give up any money they would have received to help replenish the beaches.
After all it was a disaster . No need to raise. And next time: they will all wave any monies to replenish the beach again. I'm sure of it.

Martin and heart of dixie - Actually I have a signed easement for years and worked on my dunes to keep them up. I understand what is going on. Its too bad you lump everyone in to the same category.

Jeff, as far as I'm concerned, they can't build the dunes fast enough. However, I don't think that hold outs are doing so because of views, despite the harvey cedars case. The holdouts are more concerned with their property rights, which should be everyone's concern. Which is why you're correct in saying that it's not just about the dunes.

As far as owning the un-ownable, the registered deeds say these people own the land. Just like your deed says you own your land. Stop conflating the issues. Easements are contested all the time, whether it's for utilities or pipelines or roads.

There are areas that had wide beaches that got destroyed, Manasquan for instance. Seaside had wide beaches compared to Mantoloking, they got slammed. Other areas fared well. There are no guarantees, and yes if asked to sign, I would, but that doesn't mean I don't understand or support others right to not sign. The ACOE is going to do the work in those area that have granted easements, it's no longer all or nothing like in the past. And for all of those folks talking about your taxes going to private beach owners, do the math, your individual tax hit for the last 30 years including Sandy and all the beach replenishment in NJ ($60B +$700M/ 205M working age adults) is about $300 total. So $10 a year is what you've been screaming about.

Mr Ships

No argument from me on taxes going to civil engineering projects. i am happy to see govt funds spent on tangible things that benefit all.

I AM concerned about your property rights. I hate ED. And believe me, I know if NJ powers that be gets a taste of land grab in their mouth from the beachfront, it wont be long before they eyeball my area for redevelopment (eg tax base enhancement). No of us,should be glib when asking you to sign easements.

personally, i think the towns should provide annadditional covenant to your deed defining "access" as staying consistent with the character of the town in perpetuity. Imwant you to keep enjoying what you paid for - including the same degree of privacy- as long as it has a big wide,dune on it that protects the rest of us...

But i disagree with building a big new beach and dunes in some areas but not others. That makes no sense.

By the way northern end Seaside and southern end of Lavallette got hammered mainly because of the breaches in Ortley.

You can't shame selfish people........Karma..........

NO, dunes will not protect it. That's why barrier islands should be vacant. Sorry..

Walking Dead, if the barrier island was left in it's natural state, how do you know that the damage would have been less? I do know one thing, that without the barrier islands being developed, the taxes for folks on the mainland would be higher. The reason Brick is one of the fastest growing townships in the country is related to the cost of living there. The cost of living in Brick is certainly lower do in large part to the properties on the island. You see, it's all tied together. You are trying to separate the two, but unfortunately, you can't. Many people are localizing the issue to us vs. them. This was a massive storm covering 1000 miles and destroying hundreds of thousands of properties. It affected all classes and types of property, you see mother nature is indiscriminate to material wealth. If you live less than 15 ft above sea level and you're within a few miles of two large tidal bodies of water, than you should expect to be affected by water at some point. A and V zones only matter to people for flood insurance purposes. If you have a mortgage, then the lender wants insurance, which makes sense. If you care about your property, you might want flood insurance. The cost of it, is the issue, which is determined by risk mitigation (i.e. height above Base Elevation and foundation type). If you want to fight the new maps, the best thing to do is literally go lot by lot, block by block and measure the height from sea level. Get your neighbors involved.

The problem with that viewpoint is that the NJ shore is not Cape Hatteras and in no way has the constant beating of hurricanes hit NJ. Some of what is going on is over-reaction and caused by NJ politicians giving up their own responsibilities and power to Fema - seemingly the worst run Agency in this nation. We have been sold out.

The Waters-Biggert Flood Act is part of deficit reduction. FEMA has been in the red ever since Katrina, and now with the Congress approving over $50B for Sandy...will contribute more to the deficit, since there's no revenue to cover it.

Spooner...I get it as far as the FEMA deficits...truly do, but policyholders should be able to use the product (most don't want to) without penalty. Now, multiple claims made need closer examination, but one-time...should not be an automatic higher risk category. Again, the claim amount should be revised to a reasonable number, not $1,000. And, the number should be adjusted based on the location of the property (as real estate and repairs are much more expensive in different parts of the country...since this is a national Bill/Act). Again, reasonableness is what is needed and our federal reps should have taken this into consideration before approving in secret. Heck, it took longer to get them to vote to fund the insurance they underwrite then it did this Act. Hopefully, they do.

The deficit racked up by Fema in good part came into being because of their awful and wasteful management of Katrina. Just think, those 20,000 trailer homes they bought and never used are sitting together somewhere giving mold a great place to fester. They are irresponsible and should ever have been put in charge of another storm subsequent to Katrina.

Their insurance program doesn't seem to be giving my neighbors very much and I suspect given their druthers, most people would just not sign up ever again for the National Flood Insurance "protection." We should be permitted to decide for ourselves if we want to self insure or go to a non-governmental source for insurance.

We are being FORCED to buy into a program that is failing in good part to give banks even more control of our lives. They tell people who need mortgages what they MUST do and it's another bankers' dream to soak us all for every penny we have.

It's a carbon copy of Obamacare. We are forced .....

taxed- if you caught the Senate budget committee hearing yesterday, they the Republican members kept bringing up the long term cost of Hurricane Sandy($85B). There wasn't one person; either Republican, Democrat, or Senate Budget committee bureaucrats, who would point too the additional revenue from the implementation of that bill. . .you wonder why that was?

Runyan should take his football and go home. He is clewless , does nothing for any of us, just like Corzine when he was in the Senate.The average person has to hear from most of these government officals on what they will do and they do nothing. Who knows what the future will bring , we are in big trouble!

And so much of that sand came to us courtesy of the Army Corps of Engineers which for years dumped and dumped and dumped sand to protect the wealthy on LBI. The sand had it's own mind and decided to come through that inlet and neither Fema nor the Army Corps ever noticed the strong drift effect that we who live in the back bay have.

Jeez chief, that's a bit heavy. First, we'd ARE those taxpayers who'd be a payin' via ED so be careful what you advise.

Second the gov't will calculate a value on the "taken" land as roughly as
Initial value of the land (which *was* a lot)
minus
A big ol' wack of depreciation due to the generally distressed nature of the beach at the moment
and then
Another big wack for the value improvement of the taxpayer funded dune making the rest of the lot buildable again.
Shoot, by the time they do that math, it will be ED + bill, not ED with a sweet payout!

Third the easement is only a partial taking. Kind of like a utility access coridor. it just says the property has to let the feds build and fix the dune, says the owner can't knock down the dune...or build much on it beyond a walkway...and in exchange they gain new land (property line to "high tide line") instead of ending up owning something under water. Understand even that is a giving up something, I get it.

But are you sure even the Chief wouldn't sign THAT easement in the face of all that you'd gain by signing it?

It's called maintenance.

How about - that doesn't work - there is a seawall from Long Branch to Sandy Hook and another one in Bay Head. Except for the areas that were elevated naturally in Long Branch, everything else went under water.
On top of that a hard structure like a seawall just moves the erosion to other places.
You can't stop a sand bar from moving - we need to find other REAL solutions.

You are misreading their comments. Translation - we don't want to allow public access.
No public access - no public money! And that includes parking!

If the gov't would add that wording...there would be no problem. Funny thing is...the gov't WON'T give that guarantee.

makes you wonder....

@ George Browne, I am going to venture that you are aware of the Public Trust Doctrine,the basic premise of which dates back to the Romans. The waters of the state are a public resource owned by and available to all citizens equally for the purposes of navigation, conducting commerce, fishing, recreation and similar uses. IF you are contending that public beach access is the sticking point with those that refuse to sign easements, then you asserting that private beach front owners own the water. They do NOT! Such elitist arrogance is not only selfish, but reckless both economically and in terms of public safety. As to the parking issue, there is an old saying amongst road ragers, "What'd you buy the road with that Cadillac?".

BUILD THE DUNES!

I am well aware of the public trust doctrine - that is why I made my comment. Providing public access MUST be part of any beach/dune projects.
The comment by the homeowners about a "boardwalk" is a smoke screen for denying public access.
Don't build the dunes until we make sure there is appropriate public access including parking. The public should be able to use what they pay for.

That's what I thought-- I think?

You do know there were areas of Bay Head and Mantoloking that got damaged and were protected by dunes? and you do know there are areas of Bay Head and Mantoloking that did not get damaged and don't have dunes don't you?

Someone jokingly pointed out the dunes could be built on the streets behind those ocean front houses. Wonder if that's something that could be done. That way those houses would have their views and they for once would have a parking problem.

Especially while the members of the town council are such respectable, upstanding and uncorrupted rulers themselves.

I do not support the Mayor. I find him arrogant. I however do not think mentioning that after four months living on his boat, he is now able to move back into his house is an insult to others. Are you suggesting that he should stay out of his house? Are you living in your house? Do you plan to move out until all displaced residents are able to return? Please stop the ridiculous political nonsense when talking about a tragedy that affected so many. You should be ashamed.

No Worse, than telling everyone you will NOT take taxpayers paid for health benefits and than doing just that less than a few months later

The mayor said he used sba loan money to rebuild and that he would not elevate at this time until the maps are "firm" and it will be at least 5 yrs before insurance rates go up ....Check- stopfemanow.com and the meeting that was recorded on 3/24/13. He makes more sense than anybody in this matter.

Kevin, your area of Arnold floods during a heavy thunderstorm. It has for the last 30 years. It is one of the lowest places in PPB.

What more would you like PPB to do on the ocean front seeing that PPB only owns about 300' of oceanfront? All of the rest is private property. Martells is rebuilding their pier....would a dune line across the middle of the pier be feasible? Remember, ACoE is talking 22 feet high.

Seawalls constructed with boulders and no gaps coupled with a properly engineered dune system along the entire coastline is the only answer unless we all want to trade in our cars for gondolas.

I very highly doubt you will see dunes the length of PPB. You may see them towards the southern end of town where there are private homes (many of which had dunes already and got damaged) and on the town owned section. As for along the boardwalk...there were dunes about 5 or 6 feet high in sections....I would not count on more than that occurring.

Internet....type in attorney's who specialize in land use, zoning and environmental issues.

@John Eric, certainly the respective municipalities have the names of the selfish holdouts, but would likely be reluctant to disclose them as their communities need all the tar and feathers they can get at the moment.

As Hart replied, an attorney who specializes in those areas has access to that info. Good luck.

Zone V is the worst and the height requirement is 14'.

Revenge....Among the "law suits for the selfish" would you include Toms River for not spending Ortley public beach badge revenue on dune replenishment?

Depends on who is in office in these towns.

@ppnb, the dunes are urgent as the funding is in place. It is a shovel ready project.The funding for elevatng is not in place. You clearly are unaware of how many entities are involved in this convoluted process. FEMA "monies" are a small part of a very complex puzzle. Educate yourself prior to making blanket statements that lack foundation

C-^

Walking Dead................well said

John. What do these symbols mean? I guess I'm not hip.