Point Beach Goes After Jenkinson's Legally to Try To Recoup Special Event Fees
But town has to decide if it will sue or issue violation to try to get $28,202
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The Point Beach Council voted 2 to 1 Tuesday night to take legal action against Jenkinson's Boardwalk to try to recoup about $28,202 in special event fees.
But no one is sure yet exactly how, where or when that legal action will be taken.
Council members Michael Corbally, who made the motion, and Kristine Tooker voted yes, Council member Tim Lurie voted no, and Council member Jeffrey Dyer recused himself because his company works with Jenkinson's.
Council members Sean Hennessy and Frank Rizzo, who has missed many recent meetings due to illness, were absent.
Mayor Vincent Barrella did not vote because in the borough council form of government, the mayor only votes to break a tie.
Jenkinson's representatives could not be reached Tuesday night.
Municipal Clerk Maryann Ellsworth had said in a recent interview that she had billed Jenkinson's $28,202.75 for their Music Fest, Fireworks, and Big Joe Henry shows during the summer.
"These are the events that require additional police services," she had wrote in an Oct. 11 email.
Corbally said at the meeting that the town is paying "$250,000 for Operation Rice Krispies this year and next year...If we didn't have Martell's and Jenkinson's, we wouldn't need Rice Krispies."
"Rice Krispies" and "Snap, Crackle and Pop" have been the label used for ramped-up police enforcement of criminal mischief violations on and near the boardwalk and beach that police said were worse this year during weekends than in the past 17 years.
Numerous year-round and seasonal residents have complained about weekend noise, public urination and trash on their property and people stumbling drunk through the streets, through their yards and sleeping on their property.
Part of the vote to take legal action was to authorize Borough Attorney Thomas Gannon to research whether the town should file suit in Superior Court, Toms River, or whether it should issue a notice of violation for not abiding by a municipal ordinance mandating special event fees.
Ellsworth said at the Tuesday night meeting that since billing Jenkinson's for the special event fees, the company has asked her questions about who authorized the bills and who is the authority to send out the bills.
"The ordinance is the authority that authorizes the bills," she told the council, relaying what she had told Jenkinson's.
She said she has answered Jenkinson's questions, but not received any payment.
Lurie, who did engineering consulting work for Jenkinson's a few years ago, said he wanted to amend the motion to first get an opinion from Borough Attorney Thomas Gannon on whether the town had a good case, as well as whether it should pursue the matter through a lawsuit filed in Superior Court or through an ordinance violations process in municipal court.
Corbally said he was open to hearing from the attorney about which venue would be best for pursuing legal action, but that he still wanted the vote to be for legal action to be initiated.
Lurie also asked Gannon how much a lawsuit filed in Superior Court would cost. Gannon never gave any estimate on that, but said, "It's expensive."
In response to a question from Lurie, Gannon also said a lawsuit could take a year.
Although Dyer recused himself from voting, he did make his feelings clear.
"I'm recusing myself for obvious reasons," he said, "but I do want to say that I think it makes sense to find out if we have a case before spending money."
Corbally said, "If we don't win, we'll hear from the judge what kind of wording we need to put in place so we'll win next year."
Gannon said he would research the legal options, adding that bringing suit "requires a higher standard of proof and is more expensive."
"I think we could prevail," he added. "But there are certain challenges, such as the vagueness of the ordinance, the clarity and past practice."
Resident Vincent Castin asked if the town can demand payment of special event fees in advance as a requirement for Jenkinson's to hold the special events.
Ellsworth said that's exactly how events are handled for nearly all other organizations, such as the fundraiser walk recently sponsored by the American Cancer Society.
The society pays about $3,000 to $5,000 in advance, she said, noting the amount billed in advance is the town's estimate of how much money it will have to spend in extra police services.
Then after the event, they, and other organizations holding special events, have 10 days to pay any additional police costs that were incurred, Ellsworth said.
She said that in the past there have sometimes been organizations that did not pay the balance within 10 days.
"Then I send another letter saying they have to pay or their event won't be approved next year," Ellsworth said. "I usually get a check after that."
Jenkinson's, in contrast, has held numerous events for many years without ever having to pay the fees before, during or after, officials have said.
Former Councilman John Dixon said it seems like it would be better for the borough to pursue the matter as a violation notice in municipal court, instead of having to pay attorney fees and court fees in Superior Court.
Barrella said that since an action against Jenkinson's would be more involved than the typical municipal court case, a special session would have to be called.
"The attorneys would all have to come in for that, so there would be attorney's fees either way," he said.
Barrella said the legal action might result not only in recouped special event fees, but in establishing a stronger basis for the town to collect the fees in the future.
Earlier this year, Ellsworth recalled, the council had voted to exempt Jenkinson's from having to pay a special event fee for its Easter parade.
Ellsworth had said in a recent interview that the Point Pleasant First Aid and Emergency Squad was exempted from having to pay a special event fee for its upcoming Monster Dash because the town exempts the first aid and fire department since they are manned by volunteers protecting the town's health, safety and welfare.
"The First Aid Squad always files the necessary special event paperwork and was approved by the Governing Body on 4/19/11," Ellsworth wrote in a recent email. "Anyone who's interested can look up those minutes on the town website (www.pointpleasantbeach.org).
"The fee was waived since they, like PPB Fire Company #2 and Ocean Fire Company #1, are unpaid volunteers who directly serve all town residents and rely on their fundraisers to stay in existence.
"You can only imagine how much it would cost the taxpayers of Point Pleasant Beach if we had a paid fire/emt squad," she wrote.
Darlene Motto
10:46 am on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
It was a very calm informative meeting. What I don't understand. Who puts these ordinances in place? Why wouldn't they make them clear laws to begin with, so they can't be challenged. Why have them in place, if you are going to make them weak and open so everyone can challenge them. It is a lot of wasted tax paying money and time if you are not going to do it right to begin with. I realize mistakes are going to be made, we are only human but admit to them and rectify them immediately. What bothers me the most is we have been letting this go on for so long. Why wasn't this done sooner, long ago...... I am talking years ago. So for all these years the tax paying residents basically have been paying for all the extra police services, garbage/DPW services, clean ups for zip, zero, nada. I don't know how other towns operate. I do see many businesses in other towns filling out permits and asking permission to have different functions, carnivals,special events what ever you want to call them. They have to be approved and charged accordingly to what and how much services are needed, you can't expect the tax payers to pay for it being they are not the ones who is asking for it and really is not making any money. I don't care who or how much money is made, that is the risk the person or business takes. It is for no one but themselves and that is fine, but pay for it. Everyone should have to follow the same procedures that are in place and the reason we have problems today.
David Cavagnaro
12:24 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
The only people, group, or business not following the special events or assembly laws are the Boardwalk Businesses. Everyone else fills out the permits and pay the fees. Some request waivers. Some get it some don’t. No one else has challenged or ignored these laws except the Boardwalk. If you have enough money, you can challenge anything. It doesn’t mean you win. Many past Councils have avoided enforcing these laws against the Boardwalk. Some may have felt the events were worthwhile. Some may have been intimidated by the threat of litigation. The Council has the right to waive fees. It does not have the right to ignore or selectively enforce the law. That’s been the problem. Everyone should be filling out the applications to the town. The longer we wait to hold the Boardwalk accountable to the law, the harder and costlier will be to guarantee enforcement.
BNRinPOINT
2:30 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Most of the "special events" the boardwalk holds are geared towards children and families that the town wants to draw in. They hold a summer kick off on Memorial Day weekend. The police are used mainly to generate revenue thru fines and at the discretion of the town. The other services are not used by the boardwalk the clean up after themselves and take care of the towns portion of the boardwalk and town owned restrooms
Darlene Motto
5:45 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Dave, I agree with the facts and what you have seen at the council meetings and what was said. You go to every single council meeting and I have seen the same facts and what I have seen for myself. I don't agree that the past Councils should have avoided enforcing these laws to begin with for no reason no matter who they are. I was puzzled with former councilmen John Dixon, not that I don't agree with him and I also question why these ordinances, permits event fees were ignored. He was a past councilmen. Sorry but there should be no event fee waived in my opinion especially during these tough times with budget restraints with the exception of a fire dept., because they provide a service to the residents of the town. They are actually saving us money because if they were not volunteered we most likely would be laying off some of them too. @BNRinPOINT, I really don't care who and what these "special events" are for, children, adults, blacks, whites, various organizations etc... The breast walk paid $5,000 dollars to the town for their event which helps thousands of women. Why wouldn't the boardwalk pay? It doesn't matter if it is geared toward children or families..... If it is costing the town money for extra police, various other services so they should pay. Let's face it they are marketing for all types including themselves which they are also benefiting by and the reason why they are in business. They are not doing it for the goodness of their heart or the fun of it.
Darlene Motto
11:01 am on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
I forgot, just to let you know. In my opinion we need a CHANGE, and no I am not against ANYONE. I don't care who you are and what businesses you own. The rules, ordinances and laws should apply to everyone the same. I am letting you know ahead of time. I am not JEALOUS either. I can care less how many billions you all have or how little someone has.
Spooner
11:13 am on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Didn't the Storino's offer to give the town $40,000 . . .now the town wants to pay their lawyer thousands of dollars to sue Jenkinson's for $28,000+. . .Talk about "dysfunctional" . . . Do these people know how to use calculator?
Part Timer
11:42 am on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Spooner, the $40,000 was a bribe to get away with not paying now and in the future.
So I ask you to do the math... A $40,000 one time fee or $28,000 per year?
Charles Clark
10:12 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
@Pittance for the problems caused by Storino and his friends. Only a cartel benefits from tourists. Why would we take a one time amount to look the other way. They should be paying for every event that they have because they are costing Us money for every one of their events. They only charged them $28,000 it should have been more. What is "dysfunctional" is the town should be charging them for every event they have. They are only charging them for some which is wrong. The town should not allow them to have anymore events until they pay up and fill out the permits as they should like everyone else in the town. Have police block the board walk and don't' let anyone on it. Rope the town off, put a big red sticker on it. Tell them to go away, the event can't be held because they don't and refuse to get a permit or permission to have the event.
Ginia
2:05 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
When I see Corbally say that if we did not have Jenkinson's and Martell's we would not need Snap Crackle Pop which is costing us $250,000 it makes me wonder what else we would lose. If we did not have Martells and Jenkinson's our taxes would sky rocket, if we did not have Martells and Jenkinsons we would hurt our hotels, which would still need to pay their taxes/mortgages which in turn would MAYBE have them bring in Section 8 to fill up the unused rooms. The children of these families would go to our schools quite possibly bringing down the quality of our schools which in turn brings down the values of our homes. Is it true that "Rice Krispies" is manned by full time PPB Officers? Has anyone ever thought that maybe the cost of this could be lowered if we used maybe one supervising full time officer and utilize our special officers for this.
Mike Corbally
2:43 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Maybe if they didn't advertise "wild party" atmosphere, have "stripper/clipper" events, didn't welcome "The Jersey Shore", and tried to become good neighbors by taking responsibilty and accountability for the mess they created with their nightclubs none of this would be needed.
David Cavagnaro
3:34 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
The comment from Councilman Corbally was for costs between 10:00 PM and 3:00 AM based on numbers from the Police Chief. He never suggested closing the bars or any other part of the boardwalk. You make quite an assumption as fact that the loss of 2 bars would escalate taxes, hurt hotels and effect our school systems. Again, no one has suggested closing the bars, possibly limiting the hours of operation. In Belmar, facing similar quality of life issues a few years ago, the Mayor and Council closed all bars at midnight. Quality of life improved, rowdy behavior decreased, and property values increased. The Council eventually allowed the bars to operate later. Good behavior persists. In Sea Girt, The Parker House Bar pays the town $75,000 a year for police supervision to help maintain a quiet business environment. The fear scenarios are why so many are reluctant to hold the Boardwalk accountable to the law
In PPB the Administrator reported at the Oct. 4 meeting on the Quality of Life Committee business suggestions. The group asked for more police, but didn’t offer to pay. Rejected early bar closings or even earlier last calls. They also want more parking, as in parking decks. If there’s no willingness for bar owners to accept responsibility for their patrons behavior,then the Council will have to act
Charles Clark
9:43 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
error........ pockets with CASH!
Charles Clark
8:12 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
@Ginia, We wouldn't lose much, I know the BW business wants everyone to think this way......... My mistake, we would lose all the least desirable and illegals that have now flooded our town, We even have a mexican store to service their needs. As far as the Hotels, they are already bringing in Section 8, they have been. They do go to our schools, and give it a few years it will bring our schools down. The impact will take a few years and we will be like all the other sleazy beach resort towns. It doesn't take a town much to turn or go south. Our home values are already going down and will continue to drop as the town continues to turn because to many live in a bubble here. Wake up residents before it is to late.
Mike Corbally
2:24 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
The Storino's offered $40,000 with the strings attached that our attorney said would compromise the ordinance. We would gladly accept any donation without strings . It was suggested that it go to our attorney. Maybe the check is in the mail?
Spooner
4:38 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
...so Ms Halversonis it true what Councilman Corbally is saying here...about strings attached, which he's not specific on?
Your the Jenkinson's Boardwalk Marketing Director and spoke person...you read these posts. . .Do you have any comments?
...and 'Part Timer'...my point was mentioned here by Mr Cavagnaro with respect to there having a lot of money to engage in litigation. The vote was 2-1, with a 6 person Council, hardly representative of the towns residents, as to what direction the Council should go in on this matter. Aside from Mr Cobally's comment. . .the money should have been accepted with no strings attached. . .as a measure of good faith to engage the town's residents through the Council and the BW, to come up with solutions to revenue and QOL problems. . .I don't think going to the Courts benefits anybody. . .just creates more animosity. . . and hardens peoples feelings and frustrations?
pointman
4:54 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
the strings attached were that they (Jenkinsons)i wanted it to go toward the police and DPW. Why would they give it if it was going to a new dump truck or sewer repairs. All the Mayor and council had to say was "we will use this for the police and DPW to help Dist 4 concerns" instead Corbally and Barrella yell STRINGs,STRINGs Bribe..So no money and a few weeks later $90.000 in taxpayer money is used for the same thing Jenkinson wanted to give the $40.000 for,,,,brilliant move
David Cavagnaro
6:18 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Pointman, your facts are wrong again. The “ attached strings” were that the $40,000 "donation" was in lieu of filling out special event applications, which is borough law. The Mayor confirmed this with direct questions to Mr. McGlynn who agreed. You can confirm this in the April 19 Council minutes. The story was reported in the Patch and the Ocean Star also. Even the attorney advised against it. There are no nice terms for offering money to circumvent the law. The Council could not accept the money with those conditions. However, Jenkinson’s was invited to contact the attorney to make a simple donation with no conditions. Never happed!
pointman
7:30 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Dave you know Mr McGlynn misspoke when he said that at the meeting. There was a lot of arguing and back and forth questions from everyone on the dias. Yes Mr McGlynn answered that way when asked ,he relized he made and error but you ,Barrella and Corbally hang on to that like a pit bull on a bone. Mr McGlynn is a well known respected lawyer, he made a mistake during a heated discussion. The point is if the Mayor spent as much time communicating with them as much as he does bashing them this whole issue would be cleared up without Court and lawsuits. Hang on to your wallet taxpayers theres more lawsuits down the road if Barrella and his crew get in. Vote for a new Mayor Nov 8th
Spooner
10:06 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
So it looks from reading Mr Cavagnaro's last post and the recently updated article. . . that the issue is whether or not these events in question come under the town's ordinance as "special events". Jenkinsons says. . .they don't. . . They make a point that this issue never came up until this year. . .So let the Court decide. . .whether the town has probable cause to compel Jenkinsons to anti up now. . . for events that they say, was part of the normal course of doing business for many many years. . .
johnny knoxville
2:54 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Looks like the bloc of Barrella, Corbally, and Tooker are not going to wait for the election to see if he gets elected. They are going to start putting the town in debt now. The legal fees of this is just the tip of the iceburg. First it will be this, then the parking plan which should be good for a few hundred thousand in legal fees and the town will lose the case in the end, and then the icing on the top will be the bar closing litigation. So long PPB ! This threesome on council are willing to bankrupt the town for their own personal agendas. Such a disgrace.
Charles Clark
8:52 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
johnny knoxville, With all your prior post including this one, you are starting to sound like a few town lawyers that we have in our town......
David Cavagnaro
11:24 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Pointman, if Mr. McGlynn felt he made an error at the meeting then I would have expected him to correct it publicly. He did not. At the meeting he publicly agreed to fill out event applications under protest. He then went into the hall and told a Patch reporter that no applications would be filled out. The Ocean Star also reported that Mr. McGlynn was looking for an agreement outside the ordinance. Those messages seem pretty consistent. When given the opportunity to offer a donation without conditions, the Jenkinson’s corporation did not respond and has not since. .
pointman
3:09 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Why is Corbally so angry. BNR and Ginia are right. Corbally fails to tell everyone during his daily Boardwalk rants that the town owns most of the boardwalk and would have to police it anyway. Corbally also fails to tell you that because of the Boardwalk $2.5 millions dollars are gained through parking and fines which without it we would probally have no services .Also because of the boardwalk Hotels downtown,rentals prosper and people have jobs,many of them are our residents. He is on a crusade and its not about his "Why should the taxpayer pay " it deeper than that ,he has some demons he is trying to conquer.
David Cavagnaro
3:46 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Again, no one has ever suggested closing the Boardwalk. The biggest problem is the late night bar crowd from two bars on the Boardwalk. The bar owners don’t want to assume any responsibility for their patron’s behavior. Instead the costs and problems get passed on to the taxpayers.
pointman
3:14 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
One other thing ,what happened at the Council meeting last night. Spooner says the town is going to sue? Whats that going to cost the taxpayer $ 100.000/$200.000 thousand. Barrella thinks this is Ok this group is out of control. Vote a new Mayor in Nov.
Mike Corbally
3:36 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
So if you have enough money, laws don't matter for fear of litigation? Rich people don't have to follow the laws? That makes sense Pointman.
blindbert
6:13 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Many hope that you do not become the mayor!!!!
Charles Clark
8:07 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Who? Yourself, Mr. Reid.
Beach_N8iv
4:48 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
There seems to be a lot of talk about "quality of life" issues in this thread. Is this only an issue within the first couple of blocks of the boardwalk or is this (as usual) more of a squeaky wheel kind of thing? What about the motels that fill up with . . . er . . . um, interesting characters in the off-season? Take a look at 35 North, pretty much the entire length, it's a MESS! Tractor trailers STILL park right under the no stopping sign at 35 North and Laurel blocking the view up the highway. Is somebody going to have to get killed entering the highway before anything is done about this? Oh, I'm sorry, that's WEST of the tracks so who cares, RIGHT?
Mike Corbally
5:11 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
I spoke with the owner on the truck issue. I suggest you call the police when you see a truck parked there. I agree it is a dangerous situation. One alias complaining is not going to change anything.
Beach_N8iv
5:30 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
There was one parked there this morning.
Coach
7:08 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
I've been a summer resident of PPB since 1958, living one block from the boardwalk, and plan on moving down full time when I retire in a few years. I I knew the Jenkinson family well, being a friend of Orlo's son, and was sad to see them sell to a new owner. My concerns were unwarranted. Over the years I have gotten to know the Storino Family and find them to be responsible entrepreneurs and good friends and neighbors. Frankly, I'm tired of all the anti Jenks measures that are continually concocted. PPB is a resort town. If you don't like it, consider moving to Holiday City with my 87 year old mother.
Charles Clark
8:56 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
@Coach, What are you receiving from your Storino Family friends? Hopefully your friends will straighten the BW area before you move down full time. Hopefully you will not have all the rowdies pissing and pooping on your lawn, cursing and screaming waking you up every few hours. Good Luck!
Coach
11:00 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Charles, i guess you haven't been in PPB long enough to remember the days before the Storinos owned Jenks and a litle bar called the Rip Tide , now the Boardwalk Bar and Grill. It was open until 3AM on Saturday eveings and attracted a crowd that makes the current patrons at Jenks and the Tiki look quite tame. And why would you ASSume I am receiving anything from the Storinos? Don't forget what you look like when you ASSume anything !!
Charles Clark
3:54 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
@Coach, I remember the Rip Tide, I will agree that crowd was least desirable and the reason why they closed it down. Jenks and Martell's is attracting close to the same crowd. When was the last time you went to the Tiki bar? What time did you stay to and what night did you go. Because you seem so supportive. BW owners is a responsible entrepreneurs? I guess you don't mind all the peeing and pooping on the lawns. You don't mind the screaming, cursing and fighting going on all wee hrs in the middle of the night. I guess you will not mind being you are not down here that much. It is a lot different when you are dealing with it occasionally. Maybe you live in a spot that you are not effected by it all. So a who cares attitude.
Charles Clark
9:08 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
The people who live in PPB receive very little benefit. It is a pittance with the BW games of Chance and Overpriced food...... it would be better that no one comes to PPB, then the business would dwindle and diminish better yet.....
Joan Vuocolo
11:23 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
@Mike Corbally,Hmmm... What are your political aspirations!!!!
John Wayne
11:38 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Your favorite cowboy is back......Howdy all, it seems to be the same characters are back. Same subjects and views, just a different day. Charles Clark seems to know what is going on. Just a little nasty the way he puts it out there. Majority of the residents know the higher taxes come from the BW problems and the tourists, the town gets 1.8 million from a 420 million business is complete joke. The State gets 28 million in sales tax, Storino makes 420 million cash business, Where's the audit of this obvious underground economy and pay offs.
Joan Vuocolo
12:22 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Welcome back, John Wayne...Giddy-Yap!!!! So pleased to hear your views!!!
Joan Vuocolo
11:52 pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Unbelievable!!! Do you people read your posts before you hit the submit button? I doubt it! Charles Clark, I think that it's time for you to relocate! It appears to me that Point Pleasant Beach isn't your home town...You stated that it would be better if no one came to PPB, then the businesses would dwindle and diminish...SHAME ON YOU!!!! I, as many of my neighbors do, try to support our local businesses. You appear to be blaming the Storino's for all of the negativity that is surrounding our community (see previous Charles Clark post). I pray for you!!!
Charles Clark
7:59 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
But Joan, this is my home town.......... Though I don't recognize it any longer......Thanks to Storino's and his friends our BW Businesses and Partners. SHAME ON ME? SHAME ON THEM, what they have been getting away with all these years. ABUSE OF POWER is what I call it. I do blame the Storino's and his side kick, the other BW businesses. They are the ones who bring the least desirable in to our town. They come in the summer and case our town out and then eventually they come to rob us or live here in our seedy Hotels. If the shoe fits wear it. Where is all the full time workers that the Storino's claim to have all year? Why does he hire illegals? Some one should check on that too! The only one you should be praying for is your friends.
Mike Corbally
4:20 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Joan, you can't do what's in the best interest of the residents and have any political aspirations in Ocean County. So to answer your question? NONE!!!!
Joan Vuocolo
12:56 am on Saturday, October 29, 2011
@Mike...Only time will tell!!!
Denise Di Stephan
7:49 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
I had to just delete a comment because it contained allegations against multiple people of crimes without offering any shred of proof. Folks, don't make any accusations of criminal activity here unless you have proof. And even then, it's better to email me: denise.distephan@patch.com. Thank you.
Charles Clark
9:12 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
@Lman, Sure I am. Who is SPINNING? Someone is always considered a socialist when they expect others to pay their fair share.
Quaghogdigger
10:23 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Dave Cav, you do know that there are 4 bars on the boardwalk, not just 2.....The town needs to rewrite the permit ordinance, make the fees 'per event', and not issue them until paid in full....They want 15 firework nights? make them $3,000 each....Pay your 45K, get your permit....Any event that requires additional police force, the presence of the fire dept. (firework nights) or first aid, I would not consider a private property defense.
David Cavagnaro
11:08 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
I am aware that there are more bars. However there are two that aggressively market to a younger crowd and have the capacity for several thousand customers. Police presence is concentrated near these bars, especially at closing time. I like your ideas for costs. The problem is that the Boardwalk owners feel that they are exempt or above these laws. They want the right to host any type of event on their property and then expect the Beach taxpayer to cover any Police or Public Works costs. They have deep pockets and appear to be willing to spend a lot of money on legal tactics to intimidate or stall the Council from taking action. Strong, decisive, and independent leadership will be needed on this Council going forward.
Sean Conneamhe
10:55 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
The Boardwalk Empire needs to be investigated.
A Point Pleasant native, who was christened at St. Peter's, knew the actual Jenkinson family, has walked the boards since the 1950s, went to school with associates of the current Family, and has been a political scientist and land use consultant since the 1970s, is writing a book.
Joan Vuocolo
1:02 am on Saturday, October 29, 2011
@Sean Conneamhe...when you say Point Pleasant native, do you mean Beach or Boro? If it's a Beach native, then I would like to get a copy of the book. Please post the details on when and where I can obtain a copy. Thanks!!!!
Denise Di Stephan
11:40 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
To Sean Conneamhe: If your friend who is writing a book wishes to speak to me, fine. Feel free to pass on my email: denise.distephan@patch.com. But please stop making insinuations here. Thank you.
sandinmytoes
9:51 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
I can't believe we're back to was it a bribe or not. At the 9/13 meeting, Chief O'Hara was asked about the meeting with Jenkinson's where the $40K was discussed. O'Hara says the purpose of the meeting was for Jenkinson's to help the police dept financially and to help the town. When asked whether the money was offered in exchange for not enforcing an ordinance, O'Hara says there was no mention of ignoring an ordinance in exchange for the $40K. So, it's O'Hara's word against Cobally? I have to believe O'Hara on that one. But, really, who cares at this point. We're out the $40K from the BW, and now they want to sue over $29K, but they don't care how much it will cost to sue for that amount or what the likelihood of winning is? It seems clear to me that the best solution is to amend the ordinance to make it clear what events you want to include, and the only reason why some aren't admitting to that is because the Republican candidates (Reid, Mayer & Cortes) are suggesting that solution and it's not politically beneficial for Corbally and Tooker to admit that the Republican candidates have the right solution.
David Cavagnaro
11:24 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
We’re back on the “bribe or not” because some people continue to wrongly state that the Council refused $40,000 from Jenkinson’s. It’s not true. It’s NOT Councilman Corbally’s word over Chief O’Hara. It’s Mr.McGlynn, general council for Jenkinson’s, stating at a Council meeting, that the $40,000 offered was in lieu of filling out special event applications. That would circumvent an ordinance, which our attorney indicated was improper. The Council clearly indicated that the would gladly accept a donation through the Trust Fund or the Borough Attorney. Jenkinson’s never responded.
Charles Clark
8:23 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
@David, It is just another stall tactic, so they don't have to pay. They get together every few months and then they walk away doing nothing until the next problems arise. They don't want to pay anything because they have been getting away with it so long. Just like spoiled tantrum kids. Nice stall tactic boys. @Joan..... I think you are the one who needs to relocate to the BW area and come see what we have to put up with. You live way to close to the BW Empire in you're no noise private zone. Come join us because your nose is turning brown and maybe you are in the sun to much.
Charles Clark
8:34 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
I love the individuals on here that support themselves. Can I call you Bill Mayer. I am a little confused. I thought Councilmen Corbally said, yes it will cost us money, but once we know what exactly needs be done from the Judge, then we can change the ordinance to read exactly what is needed "no lawyer loopholes" so we can bill the true amount which the figure was around $400 thousand for police services needed because of their special events that they want to make money on for themselves too. This is year after year charges if they decide to continue to draw in large crowds. It should apply to Marlell's and who ever else is involved.
Joan Vuocolo
12:16 am on Friday, October 28, 2011
@Charles Clark...I think it's time for you to relocate to your own private island in the sun!!!
blindbert
6:41 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
The amount of people and the hours of operation have increased a lot since the mid 70's.
You think people should move away how about those that have been here a lot more time than you Ms Joan?
Does that mean if someone buys or rents next to you and extremely noisey and build things sometimes without approval that you should not say something,sell and move away?
Coach
1:41 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Charles, again you are ASSuming when you say I may not live in a spot where I am affected. Fact is I live a 1 1/2 blocks from the Tiki and 1 Block south of Jenks, so few people are affected more. By the way you don't mention how close you live to all the "noise" you complain about. I was at Martells last in late August and usually am at Jenks (not the club, the raw bar) . I see the type of clientele at both locations as they park in front of my house and pass by. I honestly believe that the weekend afternoon crowds leaving the Tiki around 6PM are as rowdy, if not more so, than the late night group. You also fail to grasp the point I am making. I choose to put up with the crowds and noise because I enjoy the benefits of living a stone's throw from the boardwalk and beach. It was even a greater advantage when my daughters were young. When I can no longer deal with this, I will either move to southern PPB below New York Ave. and perhaps a few blocks west of the beach. Anyone, such as yourself, who purchases a home in the beach, knows what they are in for before they buy. I had neighbors who bought their second home in 1991 and did nothing but complain about the weekend noise for 10 years, until they sold in 2001. You remind me of a person who buys a home next to an airport and then complains about the noise from the airliners.
blindbert
10:42 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
what year did you buy in coach? I been here since the fifties.
I do not think i need to run away because the BW has drastically increased its land use with no regard to the parking issue.If you have an unruly neighbor that has late loud parties and may build things without permit should you just give up sell and move on or do you fight for your rights.
Joan Vuocolo
11:51 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
@blindbert...No, not at all Al. Can I call you Al? My husbands family vacationed here in the late 50's and purchased property in the early 60's. Many of the residents of PPB are not true "Clamdiggers, since we weren't born or raised here, however we still call it home. I was referring to Charles Clarks ignorant posts where he judges individuals based on their ethnicity and then comments that they even have a store to service their needs. He sounds too much like Archie Bunker to me. I thought that God created us all equal...Guess I was wrong, how unfortunate for me!
Charles Clark
8:38 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Joan, Where is my ignorant posts or judging anyone on their ethnicity? I have seen a few of your own ignorant posts. God did create us all equal.....but there is so many here that are hypocrites that will say come, but not just next to me and my domaine.
blindbert
12:24 am on Saturday, October 29, 2011
what about the issue of moving away because of bad neighbors that were there and and are. People do want the BW shut done just a little tamer
Joan Vuocolo
1:07 am on Saturday, October 29, 2011
@blindbert...Gee, I thought I answered it when I said not at all. By all means, you should stand up for your rights. Don't give up the fight! What about me calling you Al, is that okay with you?
Charles Clark
8:43 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
@blindbert, You see, Joan is just another one of those hypocrites that is all right until it effects them, then it is not. Don't believe it, as soon as someone fights, she is telling someone they should move, if they don't like it. She surely would not tolerate it going on if it was happening next door to her.
blindbert
9:32 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
do not (instead of do) want it shut down.
Coach
1:08 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Bert .. to reply to your earlier question, I've been in PPB since 1957 at age 3. I'm not crazy about the crowds in the clubs but the trouble makers are a small percentage.
You can't live in a resort town and expect it to close down at 10PM, wiht the exception of Ocean City, which I believe is still dry. And what makes people think that a different owne wouldn't even be more aggressive in efforts to make a profit?
Charles Clark
2:09 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Ocean City and Ocean grove are still a dry town. They have many tourist visiting them and making plenty of money. You don't here any of the residents complaining there because they will not allow what is going on here go on in their own town. They don't want their town going down the drain with all the partying and carrying on that is done here. Some towns just care a little more even if means giving up some money that could be made from the business owners. They can make plenty enough money without letting so much get out of control. It can't always be about the money. You have to have leaders who are willing to say enough already. We have to do what is right. Do you know how many individuals told me they were going to by pass Point Beach to go to Ocean City because it is cheaper, cleaner, less rowdies as you call them. Even individuals from here were going to Ocean City. If you get new owners, you lay down the rules and if they refuse to go by them, a town can shut them down. Other towns don't let business owners or tourist get away with what we do here. Let them know you mean business and sometimes you have to do what you have to do to let them all know you mean business.
Charles Clark
2:10 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
error..... hear any of the residents complaining.
blindbert
1:57 am on Saturday, October 29, 2011
If you will be my bodyguard
Ican be your long lost pal
I can call you betty
and betty can you call me
you can call me foul
but Iam not who u think
Joan Vuocolo
5:30 pm on Saturday, October 29, 2011
@blindbert...
A man walks down the street,
It's a street in a strange world.
Maybe it's the Third World.
Maybe it's his first time around.
He doesn't speak the language
He is a foreign man,
He looks around...
Spinning in infinity,
After all, spinning is what they do best,
Don't you agree!!!
And, I will call you AL!
Mike Corbally
8:55 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Let's get ready to RUMBLE PPB! After Church of course.
blindbert
9:29 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
i wonder if some peoples views were different if Clarks landing started catering to the same crowd that goes clubbing to the BW. They could use the same attitude "After all they would have the historical right" to as that was the place to go long ago.
Maybe the downtown business would benefit from a summer weekly concert series
say on Monday or Tuesday nights targeted toward the youth( hip hop, metal and some of the more popular club bands) in the Borden's parking lot. Add a beer and wine garden a let frankies serve outside. After all it is a business area that employ many people.
To get to Curtis Ave from 35 south that you pass a sign that reads something in the order of "Local Residents Only"
Coach
2:32 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Charles you sound like a dictator with this comment: " If you get new owners, you lay down the rules and if they refuse to go by them, a town can shut them down".
You seem so miserable in PPB. Why don't you move to Ocean Grove or Ocean City where you can enjoy the shore on your terms?
Charles Clark
3:28 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Coach, you sound like a dictator yourself with your comment. That is the answer from your little group. Anyone that does not agree should move out so we can continue to do what ever we want. Personally, I have never even visited Ocean Grove or Ocean City. This town is made up of many different groups and they are all against each other and it shows. You have the homegrown that does not want the opinion of anyone that is not originally from here. Not even the residents that have been here for years. They are constantly being told to go back to where ever you came from. I have witnessed that from our prior attorney. Yelling it out right in an open public meeting. There is Part- time, Full- time, homegrown, new residents, does that mean one trumps the other? In views and opinion, It appears that way. Coach, this is nothing new, A town has the right to close any business that is not going to cooperate with the town or if the town feels there is continuous problems that they can't get under control. It has happened in many different towns. You have to know when to say Enough is Enough. I am sure Bay Head, Lavallete would not allow what is going on here. Belmar has even cleaned up their Animal House, I guess they have been coming here instead. Maybe, you don't care, but I can tell you that many are worried on what is going on here including many of the homegrown. Maybe they will not admit to it , because they are friends with someone's wives. Many are afraid to speak out.
Charles Clark
3:51 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Coach, Some tourists even had problems and were complaining. Who wants to bring their families when is animal houses right next door. They don't want their kids subject to these types of behaviors and be woken up every two hours. Maybe you don't come enough to see what is truly going on. Hopefully they will get it straighten out before you move down full time, but don' say anything because now you will be told to go home. Until you are next door to a bunch of morons that keep you up all night. Maybe then you will change your mind. The police have repeatedly said, they haven't had this many complaints and problems in the past 17 years, at least that is what I thought was said. So can everybody be so wrong?
Mark Story Jenks
10:31 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
All this banter amongst residents of Point Beach makes me glad I don't live there. But after Jenkinson's burned down I worked for the guys who demolished the building, and got some neat souvenir items. We drank the liquid ones, and spent the metal ones.